[Nmcaver] [Fwd: Re: nmcaver Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9]

[Stephen Fleming]

Folks, I am reposting a reply from Larry Pardue, with his permission, 
about my initial message to Bilbo. You will see that my example of 
paying to look at the mountains from the road is in fact happening, 
though it is in a USFS area. The cautionary tale remains about future 
charges. Larry is a longtime Carlsbad resident (and caver) who flies an 
experimental aircraft he built several years ago. His website is noted 
in the message so you can read about the AZ trip and more if you are 
interested.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Nmcaver] nmcaver Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9
Date: 	Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:07:05 -0600
From: 	Larry Pardue <n5lp at warpdriveonline.com>
To: 	Stephen Fleming <swcaver at warpdriveonline.com>


On Jun 28, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Stephen Fleming wrote:

> I read about your Flag trip when I saw it on VAF??? Anyway, you  
> should send your comment below to the entire list. I will do it if  
> you don't mind but it would be better as a direct comment from you  
> to the group. This fee thing is getting out of hand and becoming  
> surreal.
>
> Larry Pardue wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 2:06 AM, Stephen Fleming wrote:
>>
>>> Mike, I have to agree with Bill. He is not wrong. These are fees  
>>> to use lands we have already paid for and if you want to play on  
>>> the NPS segment you will pay ever-increasing costs. When you read  
>>> the NPS press releases, they don't even pretend they have  
>>> involved the public in their fee decisions. There is no mention  
>>> of public comments or hearings. No mention that not everyone  
>>> agrees with their processes. All you see is that they've done an  
>>> internal study to ensure the fees are consistent with other  
>>> parks. Well, I am so impressed they are so concerned with  
>>> consistency among parks. Doesn't make any of it right. Where is  
>>> the data to show any of their fees are necessary? By that I mean  
>>> some verifiable process that is not based on them just saying  
>>> they need it. You ever seen that kind of data? I haven't.
>>>
>> Well said Steve!
>>
>> I went to Flagstaff/Sedona/Grand Canyon a few weeks ago.  
>> http://n5lp.net/Aught_Six.html  I found it very disturbing to 
>> find that down around Sedona they are demanding a fee to pull 
>> over to the side of the road.
>>
>> "When is a Red Rock Pass Required?
>>
>> A Red Rock Pass (or Golden Eagle, Golden Age or Golden Access) is  
>> required when recreating on National Forest land in Red Rock  
>> Country, a high-impact recreation area. The pass must be displayed  
>> in the windshield of the vehicle.
>>
>> Vehicles parked on the National Forest in the red rock area that  
>> do not display a valid pass in the windshield are subject to  
>> receiving a citation.
>>
>> A pass is not required for incidental stopping to take a  
>> photograph or to enjoy a scenic vista (approximately 15 minutes or  
>> less)."
>>
>> How about that?  As long as we look quickly enough they don't  
>> charge for looking.  We should be happy to pay; after all the  
>> rocks are RED!  I think this is a pretty unbelievable example of  
>> what you are saying.
>>
>> On the same trip I ran into the trail issue at Grand Canyon. There
>> are numerous signs about fines for leaving the trail.  When I 
>> researched the issue I found the actual rule is aimed at cutting 
>> switchbacks. Making up a rule, on the spot seems to happen too 
>> often in the National Parks.
>>
>> Larry Pardue

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